Episode 86: Pete Enns - Pete Ruins Exodus (Part 2)

Pete continues his series in Exodus chapters 3 and 4. God reveals his plan to use Moses to deliver the Israelites from Egypt and Moses does everything he can think of to get out of it. He finally gets on board with the program, but not without a last-minute bizarre twist and a close call.

Mentioned in this episode

• Podcast: Jeffrey Stackert Episode - Season 2

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Pete:  You’relistening to the Bible for Normal People, the only God-ordained podcast on theinternet.  Serious talk about the sacredbook.  I’m Pete Enns.

Jared:  And I’m JaredByas.

[Jaunty Intro Music]

Pete:  Heyeverybody.  Welcome to another episode ofthe Bible for Normal People.  And we’reback.  Pete Ruins Exodus Series.  This is Part 2.  We’re gonna hit Chapters 3 and 4.  Remember last time, we looked at Chapters 1and 2 and I said it’s gonna take us a little bit more time to go through thefirst few chapters, because a lot of the theology of the book is set up in thefirst four chapters.  So we did Chapters1 and 2 last time, where we met Moses and he ran away from Egypt.

And now, we get to the real meaty part of theintroduction.  This sets up a lot ofstuff that’s gonna come afterwards.  So,we’re gonna, again, take a little bit of time doing this.  The subsequent episodes are not going to bedealing with a couple chapters at a time, because we’d be here for a 20-partseries, which ain’t gonna happen, folks, as much as I like it.  As much as I love talking about this book andthinking about it, it’s not going to happen. 

Listen, in these three chapters, what I do—I always do thiswhen I think about presenting or teaching on topics—I try to break it down froma 30,000-foot view level and I’ve come up with three basic parts, threesections to these two chapters.

The first is that God reveals a plan to Moses.  This is the whole Mount Sinai and burningbush thing.  That’s the first few versesof Chapter 3.

Then the bulk of this is Moses having heard the plan, hetries everything he can to get out of it. That takes us from the middle of Chapter 3 to the middle of Chapter 4.

The last part is Moses finally gets on board with theprogram, but he’s really still not super happy about it.  It doesn’t go off without a hitch.  There’s something very, very weird thathappens in this part of the book.  It’shard to explain actually.

But those are the three.  We’ll take each of those and, like last time,and like we’re gonna do for the rest of the series, I’ll break it down the wayI see it, the big picture and then drop down in each of these sections and talkabout a few things that I think are important or interesting or valuable for anumber of reasons to talk about.

Hope that sounds okay.

So first—the first part is that Moses meets God and Godreveals His plan to Moses.  The firstthing we see there is the location. They’re at this Mountain of God and that mountain, of course, is Mount(I bet you were going to say Sinai, huh?)—well, it’s not Mount Sinai.  It’s Mount Horeb.  It’s not called Mount Sinai until much laterin the book, like Chapter 16.  MountSinai is the more common term, but it’s not here.  It’s called something else.  It’s called Horeb.

Also, if you notice, the very first verse, the name ofMoses’ father-in-law is Jethro, but we met him already in Chapter 2.  There his name is Reuel.  So what the heck?  You got two names of the mountains.  You’ve got two names of hisfather-in-law.  Actually, there’s a thirdname for Moses’ father-in-law, that Hobab, that comes up in the book ofNumbers, which obviously we won’t get to. 

But the question is why is this?  Some people might explain it as like, “Okay,listen.  Just alternate names for thesame place.  It doesn’t really matter.  It’s not a big deal.”  In a way, they’re right.  It doesn’t really matter.  It’s not that big of a deal.  But it’s still curious that you’ve got thesedifferent names for the Mountain of God and the different names for Moses’father-in-law.

The way this is typically explained in the world of biblicalscholarship is that what we have here are two different traditions of theExodus story, two different ancient versions, maybe oral, maybe writtendown.  Who knows?  The editor of the book of Exodus as we haveit, which probably happened after the return from exile in Babylon, whichhappened after 539.  This editor broughtthese together and compiled them, because he is interested in preserving traditions,not eliminating them.  So he puts thesetraditions side-by-side.

There’s a lot more into this to really explain this, atleast the way a lot of scholars look at it. If you are interested, we have a podcast episode from Season 2, by ascholar from the University of Chicago, Jeffrey Stackert, who talked about thecomposition of the Pentateuch (the Pentateuch’s the first five books of theBible, Exodus being the second one) and how the books might have come togetherand how you can see this sort of thing, these differences, maybe tensions inthe text and this is one of them.  Youhave two names for Mount Sinai, two names for Moses’ father-in-law.  That’s just worth noticing.

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The second thing that I find really interesting with thismountain is its location.  Now if youread the beginning of chapter 3, Moses is tending the sheep of hisfather-in-law, Jethro.

By the way, side issue here. The rabbis have said that tending sheep is job-training for Moses,because he’s going to be tending sheep, meaning Israel, for a long time.  Even as Psalm 77, the very end verse 20,there Moses is described as the shepherd of Israel.  And David is a shepherd.  He’s a shepherd first.  He’s shepherds the people. God is a shepherdin the Old Testament.  There’s somethingabout shepherding and leading people—that analogy is very nice for ancientpeople. 

Of course, the New Testament, Jesus is the Good Shepherd.

Here you have Moses tending the sheep.  Now remember where he is.  He is in Midian.  He takes them from Midian to find a place forthem to graze, or whatever sheep do.  I’mfrom the suburbs.  I’ve got cats anddogs.  I have no idea.  They might sit down with a fork and knife,for all I know, but who knows?

He’s taken them out to take care of them.  He’s doing what shepherds do.  If you look at—Google it—or look in any goodBible that has maps in the back and locate where Midian is, it’s on the far-rightside of the Sinai Peninsula.  It’s prettymuch up there, pretty north up there on the other side of this little sea that—theGulf of Akaba, it’s sometimes called.

Midian is way up there. If you look at the location of Mount Sinai, the traditional location isin that Sinai Peninsula, but way south. You can look at the scales that they give in study Bibles and it’s about100 miles or so. 

The idea that Moses was shepherding the sheep of hisfather-in-law, Jethro, the Midianite, and he took them way down there is areally strange credulity.  Most peoplewho read this say, “Listen, it’s—Mount Sinai’s not down there.”  That’s really a Christian legend.  It’s the site of St. Catherine’s Monasteryand sort of a tourist trap, I guess. Here’s Mount Sinai. 

Nobody really knows where that mountain is, but it doesn’tseem to be way down there.  It’s probablynot that far south, which, again, is like 100 miles away.

Mount Sinai is probably up in the Midian area and that is inwhat Paul calls Arabia.  In Galatians4:25, he refers to Mount Sinai as being in Arabia.  That’s much more consistent with it being inMidian than with it being way down south in the Sinai Peninsula.

That’s just a matter of—I think it’s—I’d even say it’scommon sense a bit.  You’re not going totake the sheep way down into a dessert. You want to keep them alive, not kill them.

So the location of the mountain is probably very differentthan what we’re used to.  Where it ismakes sense, because there is actually a road, an ancient road, that runs fromEgypt round the Nile Delta.  Again, ifyou have a map, look at it.  The NileDelta, which is very northern part of Egypt where the Nile River pours into theMediterranean Sea.  There is a road thatyou can take from there to way up north where Midian is, probably a trade routeof some sort.

That might be the route that the Israelites take later.  That may be what’s understood there. 

All this makes sense. But if you put Mount Sinai way the heck down there, it’s like, “What arewe doing down here?”

That’s for the Mountain of God.

The burning bush itself is sort of a weird thing.  The burning bush is first of all—the angel ofthe Lord appears to him and later, it’s God speaking.  So this angel of the Lord and God aresomewhat equated and, people spill a lot of ink trying to decide who is thisfigure?  Who is this angel of the Lord?  Some say, “Well, is it Jesus in the OldTestament?”

Probably not, because Jesus isn’t an angel.  That’s not really a logical conclusion tocome to.

It is a figure that pops up an awful lot, as you may know,in the Old Testament.  Who this characteris, is just—we don’t really know other than he is a messenger of Yahweh and soclosely connected to Yahweh that the two are almost like equated.  To speak to the angel of the Lord is to speakto Yahweh Himself.

It’s hard to speak to Yahweh directly in the OldTestament.  That’s probably what itmeans.  When you see angel of the Lord, Ithink it’s oftentimes fine just to equate that with God or His divine name,Yahweh, which is going to happen really quickly in this story anyway.

It’s hard to identify who this character is. 

The question people have asked is “why a bush?”  Well, the Hebrew for bush is “sneh,” which isvery, very similar to Sinai and it maybe that the name Sinai has influenced howthis story has been told, if you follow me. The location of Sinai came first and then because it’s a place in Sinai,a bush becomes part of this story. That’s a possibility.  Of course,I’m just conjecturing.  We don’t know.

It could be the other way around.   There’s a bush, a wonderful bush, and peoplecalled it “bush,” “bushland,” “bushtown,” or something. 

More important, though, why fire?  Fire is common language in the Old Testamentfor the appearance of God.  The technicalterm is a “theophany,” when a god appears. Fire is something that accompanies that. You see that, for example, way back in Genesis 15, when God makes acovenant with Abraham and He’s depicted as this “fiery pot,” a “flaming pot.”

Later, you know the Exodus story, we’re gonna come to theRed Sea and there we have a pillar of fire and a pillar of cloud.  But again, a pillar of fire is a way in whichGod is represented in the Old Testament. That makes some sense. 

What doesn’t make sense is why doesn’t it burn up.  Why isn’t it consumed?  That’s what Moses sees.  He sees this bush and he’s curious about itbecause it’s burning, but it’s not being consumed. 

Again, it’s interesting. The text doesn’t actually explain a lot of these questions that wehave.  But some have suggested that it alreadyanticipates the plague stories, where natural properties are suspended.  So here we have natural properties aresuspended.  Something is not beingconsumed.  Others have thought throughouthistory that it’s just a metaphor of some sort. It’s symbolic, for example, of Israel not being consumed under thepressure being in Egyptian slavery.

Who knows?  I’m justthrowing out options here, but there isn’t much to go on.

I think it’s more than simply, “Wow!  What a miracle!  What a random, wonderful thing to see!”  Whatever it is, it’s not random.  It has meaning.  It has theological meaning.  We just don’t know what it is.  At least, I don’t.  Maybe you do. If you do, message me.  I’d loveto hear it.

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When Moses approaches this bush, he’s told, “Stayback.”  God says, “Stay where you are andremove your sandals.  You can’t just walkover here like this.”  There is areverence to being in God’s presence. Here’s the thing that I find so intriguing about this.  I’m not making any of this stuff up.  In Jewish theology, ancient Jewish theology, MountSinai is seen as the template for the temple itself later on.

What I mean by that is this. Any Israelite can be at the foot of the mountain.  Part of the way up, it’s elders can gothere.  All the way up, it’s only Moses,because that’s the most holy place. That’s like the temple.  The outercourt, pretty much anybody can be there. You go the Holy Place.  You’rerestricted.  Only some can go inthere.  Then the Most Holy Place, theHoly of Holies, only the high priest can go.

What we’re seeing here is already, again, a preview ofwhat’s going to be a rather significant thing later on in Exodus when the tabernacleis built, which is the movable version of the temple that’s built later underSolomon. 

You can’t just walk over here.  Take your shoes off.  Show some respect.  This isn’t a normal thing.  You’ve got to do something different.  Like taking your shoes off, which is still,as you know, a sign of respect in some cultures.  I even go into people’s houses.  Sometimes, I see them taking off their shoes,so I take mine off too, just to follow along with the custom.  That’s not exactly the same thing, but it’sstill the idea of some sort of reverence or respect.

Moses in a different place. His curiosity is already turning into some sort of fear.  He puts his head down.  He isn’t curious anymore.  Curiosity is beginning to turn intofear.  Especially when God relays theplan to Moses directly.

He begins—we’re all here in that first section here, aroundverse 8 or 9.  God says to Moses,“Listen, we already know each other, but you don’t know it.”  What do you mean by that?  He says, “I’m the God of your father, the Godof Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.  I’m the Godof your father,” which means—typically it’s “god of your fathers,” like the“god of your ancestors,” but in this case, it says, the “God of your father,Moses,” meaning “I know you were raised in Egypt in Pharaoh’s household, butyou need to know that you’re dealing with the god of your parents, and the godmaybe of your parents before that.  Thisis a family thing.  You’re actuallydeeply connected to me.  I know you.  And you’re gonna get to know Me.  We know each other.”

Second thing.  “Moses,you may be wondering why you’re up here talking to Me.  I’m coming to deliver my people fromsuffering and to bring them to a paradise-like land, a land flowing with milkand honey.”

“That’s great.  Thanksfor telling me. What’s in this for me?” Moses doesn’t say that, but, “Great, why are you telling me this? Whyare you telling me what you’re going to do?” That is when God—the other shoe drops. That’s the next verse.

This is verse 10, where Moses tries to get out of it,because God says to him, “I’m gonna send you to do it.”  This is Moses’ first try to get out of whatGod is telling him to do.  “I’m gonnasend you to do it.  I’m gonna send you,Moses.”  That’s the thing that generatesthe discussion that goes in Section 2 of these chapters, where Moses doeseverything he can to try to get out of it.

We have here is the first of no fewer than five complaintson Moses’ part to get out of it.  “Allright, Moses.  I’ve heard the cries of mypeople.  I’m gonna come deliver them,which of course, I mean, you’re going to do it.”  So the first complaint is “Excuse me, what?”

Moses doubts his ability to do this.  “Who am I?” I want to encourage you not to think of it as a lack of faith orsomething.  Of course, he’s gonna saythat.  Who wouldn’t say that?   “Who am I to do this?  I just ran away from Egypt and guess what,the Egyptians are mad at me, because I killed one of theirs.  Even my own people, the Israelites, don’t trustme very much because I tried to break up a fight between two of them and theygot all testy with me.  Just leave mealone here.  I’m having a good time justbeing a shepherd.  I was just curiousabout this bush.  Now, all of a sudden,you’ve got me doing this thing.  Who am Ito do this?”

God’s response is, “I will be with you.”  This is a theme that’s going to continue inthis chapter.  The theme is this:  Moses says, “Who am I?  I can’t do this.  I can’t do this.”  God responds, “I will be with you.  I’m going to be your mouth.  I’m going to do this with you.  You’re not alone.”  It’s really a battle of the “I’s” here inthis section of Exodus.

In Hebrew, it’s very pronounced.  There’sa word that really emphasizes this first-person pronoun, “I”, that you don’tnormally see.  Who’s going to be incharge of this?  Is it Moses?  “I’m not just sending you off on your own,pal.  I’m going to be with you.  I’m going to help you.  In fact, to let you know that I’m with you,I’m going to give you a sign.”

The problem is here is the sign that God gives him.  “When you’ve brought your people out ofEgypt, you shall worship God on this mountain.” You see that.  That’s not much ofa sign if you ask me. 

“Here’s the sign. Here’s the sign that I’ve sent you and you’re going to besuccessful.  When you get back here,you’re gonna worship Me on the mountain.” “That’s not a lot of help.  What Ineed is a sign right now that’s gonna give me—give me a sign.  That’s not a sign.  That’s nothing.  I want to know right now what’s gonna happenand whether this is gonna work or not.  A bolt of lightning.  Arainstorm.  An earthquake.  Something to let me know right now.  That’s the kind of sign I want.”

That’s not what Moses gets. This happens elsewhere in the Bible too. The sign is something like—“I need a sign now, not later”—but maybethat’s the sound of God laughing.  Idon’t know.  Maybe just pushing Moses inthe logic of the story—pushing Moses to—“you’ve got to trust Me.  I’m not just going to give you a sign.  Because if I give you that, you’ll wantsomething else.  The sign is I’m with youand you’ll know it when it’s over.”

Moses responds the way any of us would.  He complains again because he’s not reallygetting the answer that he wants.

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The next complaint is the longest one of this section.  Basically, he says, “They’re not going tobelieve me when I go back there and I tell the people that I’m thedeliverer.  I’m going to bring them outof Egypt.  I sort of have a reputationback there that not everybody thinks the best of me.  Plus, after all this time has gone by.”

Let’s think about that for a second.  How much time has gone by?  It maybe that he’s about 80 years old rightnow.  Actually, he is about 80 in thelogic of the story.  If you look atExodus 7:7 when he confronts Pharaoh, it says that he’s 80 and Aaron is 83, hisbrother.

He’s 80 and he dies at 120. They say that at the end of the book of Deuteronomy.  What tradition has said—Jewish tradition hasheld that he left Egypt at the age of 40. He’s been in Midian now for 40 years. He spent the first 40 years in Egypt. He flees at the age of 40.  He’sin Midian for another 40 years.  At theage of 80, he leaves to deliver the Israelites. He delivers them and 40 years later, at the end of the wildernessperiod, he’s 120 and he dies.

In fact, the book of Acts, the New Testament, the book ofActs Chapter 7 says that he’s 40 when he leaves Egypt.  Exodus doesn’t say that.  But Jewish tradition does.  The book of Acts reflects that older Jewishtradition.  They’re not just making thatnumber up.  It’s not a Biblicalnumber.  But it’s the number of Jewish tradition.  It seems like Moses’ life goes into threenice phases.  I think that’s pretty cool.

We don’t know that—but that’s what the text says.  Actually, that’s what tradition says.

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Anyway, the point here is that Moses is not at all sure thatthis is going to work.  He says, “I needa name.  They’re going to ask me, ‘Moses,who sent you?  Tell us who it is.’”  Maybe it’s a little bit insulting for Mosesto ask God, “I need a name here.  They’regoing to ask me a name.”  It’s likeasking a famous person that everyone else knows—you meet him at a dinner partyand you say, “What is your name?  I needto tell people what’s going on here. What’s your name?”

They go, “Paul McCartney” or “LeBron James” or“Beyonce.”  It’s a little bit insulting,“What’s your name?”  God’s answer toMoses—God’s famous answer to Moses is, “I am who I am.”  He says, “Just tell them I AM sent you.  They’ll know who that is.” 

This is the part of Chapter 3 that it seems that the gospelof John takes and uses to describe Jesus, when Jesus says, “I am the Vine” Or“I am the Good Shepherd” in John’s gospel. There are seven “I am” sayings and most think that this is Johnconnecting Jesus to this moment on Mount Sinai where God says, “I AM” andthat’s all there is to it.

It’s interesting here whether—it’s not really an answer to aquestion because Moses doesn’t know the name. I don’t know.  Would Moses notknow who this is?  Maybe he doesn’t.  Well, why wouldn’t he know?  He’s Jewish. Well, he was raised Egyptian, so he doesn’t know.

I don’t think it’s the people who don’t know the name.  I think it’s Moses who doesn’t know it, inthe logic of the story.  We’re nottalking about history necessarily here. Just in the logic of the story. It’s Moses who doesn’t know the name. Right after that, the Lord says to him basically, “All right.  Just tell them the Lord sent you.”

That word, “Lord” in the Bible, when it’s spelled with acapital L and then the “ord” likewise in capital letters, but smaller letters,that word Lord is the way, in English Bibles, you represent the divine name,Yahweh.

It gets a little bit confusing, but that divine name istypically not printed out in any Bible that I know.  That goes back to Jewish tradition.  The reverence of the divine name, not wantingto the pronounce it, so the best way to pronounce it is not even to put it inthe text.  You put another word there,“Lord.” 

That’s His name. Yahweh.  He’s announcing to Moseswhat His divine name is.  Yahweh.  Here’s the thing:  the word, Yahweh, nobody knows where thatreally comes from.  But in this story,the word Yahweh is connected with the Hebrew verb, “to be.”  They’re spelled very, very similarly, whichis why when Moses asks Him for His name, He says—He uses the verb “to be.”  “I am Who I am.  Tell them ‘I AM’ sent you.  Listen, Moses.   Just tell them it’s me, Yahweh.”

But this biblical writer, he’s connecting that name,Yahweh.  He’s explaining to us where theterm Yahweh came from.  It came from thisHebrew word, the most common word in the Hebrew language, in any language, “tobe.”

I’m just dwelling on that a bit, because this has been animportant element in the history of biblical scholarship.  Maybe God’s name is being announced here forthe first time.  I’m not so sure that’sthe case.  I could be wrong aboutthat.  I just think it’s Moses—it’s notbeing announced for the first time.  It’sjust being announced to Moses, who doesn’t know it.

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The historical background for this name for this name,Yahweh, like a lot of things, when you compare them to the Bible’spresentation, it might be a little bit more involved historically andcomplicated.  That’s a podcast on itsown.  We’re not going to do that now.

Here you have God telling Moses, “Tell them Yahweh sentyou.  I’m the God of your ancestors. Notjust you Moses, but all the people.  TheGod of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.  This ismy ancient name.  This is my nameforever.  They’ll know who it is.  Okay, Moses. You’ve got the credentials.”

God continues.  Hegives further direction to Moses.  Thisstarts around verse 16.  He says, “Firstof all, you’re gonna reveal the plan to the elders.  You need to get the elders together.  Reveal the plan to them.  Then, you’re all gonna go to Pharaoh.”

Interesting enough, in the book of Exodus, the elders don’tgo anywhere.  It’s really just Moses andAaron.  Even after a while, Aaron dropsout of the picture.  Moses takesover.  At least here, it says, “You guysgo and tell Pharaoh this.  Tell him, ‘HeyPharaoh, our God Yahweh told us that you have to let us go so we can take threedays’ journey into the wilderness to sacrifice to Him.  We’re not going to do it here.  Our God—you can’t deny what our Godwants.  Our God wants us to go into thewilderness on a three-day’s journey to sacrifice to Him.’”

Which raises a whole lot of questions.  A three-day journey.  Are they gonna just go out for three days faraway from Egypt, sacrifice and then come back? Is this the implication of what they’re saying?  In other words, is this like a little liethey’re telling to Pharaoh to let them go?

Which is not the first lie we’ve seen in Exodus.  Remember the midwives.  They tell Pharaoh, “Hey, the reason we’re notkilling the kids is because when they’re born, the Hebrew women are toovigorous and by the time we get there, they’ve already given birth.  We can’t do anything.”

It could be another example here of—just tell them, “All wewant to do is go away on a three days’ journey. We’ll come back.  We just want tosacrifice.”  But Pharaoh won’t even wantto do that.

Actually, what three days’ journey probably means (I’m like85% on board with this)—but it probably doesn’t mean literally “we’re gonna gofor three days.”  A three-day journey isjust a way of saying, “We’re getting out of here.  We going to go on a long journey and we’regoing to sacrifice to God in the wilderness.”

Still, there’s nothing here about, “We’re gonna be free ofyou and free of this place.”  When youthink of ultimate purpose of the exodus to bring them freedom from Egyptianslavery, this is actually a pretty modest request to Pharaoh.  Alas, God continues.  He says, “It’s not going to work, unless Ishow him my power,” which is the plagues. “He’s not going to let you go unless I stretch out my arm and I show himmy mighty hand.”  That’s biblicalrhetoric for God’s might.

Here it refers to the plagues.  I’m just throwing this in for free, because Ilove stuff like this.  In verse 19, Godsays, “God is going to stretch out His arm,” and the Hebrew word there is“shalach.”  He’s going to “stretch outHis arm.”  As a result, Pharaoh’s goingto send out the people.  The Hebrew wordfor send out is also “shalach.”  So Godis going to “shalach,” “stretch out His arm,” and force Pharaoh to “shalach”the people. 

I love this stuff. This is why I went to seminary. Ignore that.  If it’s not fun foryou, it’s fun for me.  And it’s mypodcast.

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Here’s the point. “I’m gonna have to strong-arm Pharaoh,” God says, “with the plagues, andthen he’ll give in.”  In other words, thepurpose—I’m dwelling on this for a reason, folks—the reason why God is gonnasend these 10 plagues is because Pharaoh’s gonna need to convincing in order tolet the people go.  “And then He’ll givein.  And you’ll leave.”

“In fact, you gonna make out in the deal, folks.  You’re gonna plunder the Egyptians when youleave.  You’re gonna take their jewelry,silver, gold, clothing and in fact, the women are gonna be the onesplundering.  Not warriors.  Not the men. But the women are gonna do it because Egypt will be so meek and sobeaten down that the women are just gonna ask. The people will be positively disposed toward them and they’re going togive them their stuff.”

30:46. BREAK FOR PRODUCER’S GROUP

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“So Moses, is that enough for you?”

Nope.  Moses isn’tdone yet.  He’s got three more complaintshe’s gotta get through. 

So the third complaint—now we’re in Chapter 4—done with Chapter3.

Moses isn’t done complaining because listen, “What if theystill don’t believe me?  I’m gonna tellthem all this stuff about your name and then I’m gonna tell them your plan, butthere’s no guarantee that they’re gonna listen to me, so how are they gonnaknow that you appeared to me?”

You have to almost be looking at the text for this, but inChapter 4, verse 1, Moses says, “Suppose they do not believe me or listen tome, but say, ‘The Lord did not appear to you’?” I think it’s important to remember that the “they” here is not Pharaohor the Egyptians.  He’s not even talkingabout them yet.  The “they” here is theelders.  It’s not about convincing Egyptyet.  It’s first about convincing theelders because again, Moses didn’t leave on the best of terms even with his ownpeople.

One of the themes that we hit in the Exodus story and throughoutthe life of Moses, throughout the rest of the books of the Pentateuch or of theTorah, is this theme of the people complaining or grumbling against Moses’leadership.  Here we’re seeing this themealready anticipated.  Moses isanticipating it, saying, “Listen. They’re not going to believe me. I’m going to have a tough time convincing them.”

God says, “Fine.  Howabout some signs now? I’ll give you some signs. You wanted signs before.  Herethey are.  First of all, take yourstaff.  Throw it to the ground.  It becomes a snake.  Pick it up by the end, its tail, and then itturns into a staff again.”

That’s one sign.  It’snot just a random sign because the power symbol of the Egyptians (well, not theonly one) is a cobra.  If you know someof the headdresses that the Pharaohs wear looks like a cobra’s little neckthings opening up, fanning out like little wings.  That’s what the headdress looks like. 

The stick turning a snake then turning back into a staffagain is symbolic of the control over the Egyptian power source, the Pharaoh.  That comes into play later when this is oneof the signs that’s performed before the magicians of Pharaoh.  As you recall, Aaron throws the staffdown.  It becomes a snake.  The magicians of Pharaoh throw down their staffs.  They become a snake.  But then what happens?  The staff of Moses swallows up the others,which is a sign of where this is going. Egypt’s power will be swallowed. It’s a symbolic sign.  It’s notjust a random—hey, let’s do something weird—let’s turn this staff into asnake.  It means something theologicallyand in the logic of the story.

The next sign is turning Moses’ hand into—making itleprous.  Leprosy is some kind of skindisease.  It’s not like leprosy oftoday.  Every Bible says that.  Every footnote says that.  It’s very careful.  It’s not the kind of leprosy that we think oftoday.  It’s like any sort of a skindisease. 

The question is what does this mean?  What’s the symbolic value of this, turning itleprous and then Moses puts his hand back in his cloak and he takes it out andit’s going to be clean again?  Some havesuggested this is another example of God’s control over the properties ofnature, which you’re going to see in the plagues, which to me, is not thatsatisfying an answer.  It might also besomething like this is symbolic of God purifying the nation for entering into theland of Canaan. 

That’s one of the problems with the Canaanites.  They’re not a pure people.  They’re a very unclean people.  They have to leave the land so the Israelitescan come in, but they have to be purified themselves in order to enter it.  It could be something like that.  I’m not grasping for straws.  I’m just channeling what other people havesaid.  But there’s no explanation in thetext, so people are bound to ask themselves, “What the heck’s going on here?”

Then he says, “Okay. Listen, if those don’t work, here’s something else you can do.”  It’s not called a sign.  He says, “He can turn the Nile toblood.”  What’s weird about that is thesesigns—let’s call all three of them signs just for convenience’s sake—they’reclearly, I think, meant for the elders. It’s the topic of discussion here. Then you see at the end of Chapter 4 in verse 29, that’s whathappens.  Moses performs all the signsGod showed him before the elders to convince them.

Yet the staff is also a sign to Pharaoh and the turning thewater of the Nile into blood is the first plague.  A couple of these hang over as something thatare just given to Pharaoh and not just the elders.  It’s not really a problem.  I just find it interesting.  Two of these things are used in the plaguesand two of them are signs for Israel, the elders, to convince them.  Don’t lose sleep over it.  I won’t.

It’s just these little irritating, odd details in thesetexts once you start reading them closely just makes you stop and think. 

We’re moving to the end, but he’s not done.  He’s got a fourth complaint.  This is in Chapter 4, verses 10-12.  It basically amounts to, “I’m not cut out forpublic speaking.”  The text says somethinglike, “I’m heavy or dull or slow of mouth and of tongue.”  I’ve heard this explained that maybe Moseshas a stuttering problem.  I don’t thinkthat’s what’s happening here.  He mightjust be saying, “I get tongue-tied.  I’mnot good at speaking.  I’mineloquent.  I don’t really want to dothis.” 

God answers him.  It’sagain the battle of the “I’s” I mentioned before.  Moses says, “How can I do this?  I can’t talk. I’m not eloquent.”  God responds,“I’m the one who gives speech to mortals. I do it.  You don’t do it.  I’m going to be with you.  You don’t have to worry.  I. I.  I.  I.”

Which “I” is doing this? I don’t want to get too Sunday Schoolish here, but I think one of theissues that’s happening is that Moses hasn’t yet learned to trust God for thisfuture endeavor.  I think he’s—I can’tblame the guy—who wouldn’t do this?  Buthe’s thinking, “You’ve asked me to do something.  I’m not equipped.”  The answer by God is pretty much, “I’mequipped and I am with you.” 

The fourth complaint ends like that.  Then you have the fifth complaint.  This is how this section ends.  It’s goes down to verse 17.  We have an honest moment finally fromMoses.  He says, “Listen.  I just don’t want to do it.  Can you just send somebody else please?”  This is the first time God becomes angry withMoses.  His anger is kindled againstMoses.  I’d frankly like to think God isexhibiting remarkable patience in this story for somebody who just—listen, theburning bush thing—“I’m talking to you and you’re arguing with me? What theheck’s going on with that?  Don’t dothat.” 

God finally gives in. He’s says, “Fine, Moses. Fine.  Aaron will do thetalking.  I’ll tell you what to say andthen you tell Aaron what to say.  Inother words, you don’t have to talk. Aaron will be your mouth.  Aaronwill do the talking for you.  You’regoing to tell him what to say.”

In other words, Moses is playing—hear me out when I saythis—Moses is playing a god-like role to Aaron. He is the one who’s now going to speak on God’s behalf to Aaron.  Aaron becomes Moses, takes his role and Mosestakes God’s role.  It even says this inthis section.  It says that, “You willserve as God to Aaron.”

The only problem is that in Hebrew, it doesn’t say, “Youwill serve as God.  You’ll be likeGod.”  It says actually—it’s quitedirect—he says, “You, Moses, will become God for Aaron.  You’ll become God.”

I don’t think Moses here is getting zapped with divinity oranything like that.  I don’t think he’sbecoming God ontologically, in a theological sense or a philosophicalsense.  I think this is just common ofprophetic rhetoric the way prophets—when prophets talk, they rarely say, “Godsaid this” and then “God said that” and then “God said that.”  They speak of God is the first person.  Thus saith the Lord, “I… blah blah blah.” 

The prophets are taking on the role of God, mediating God tothe people.  I think that’s what’shappening here.  Moses is taking on thisGod-role for the people.  That happensagain later on in Chapter 7, we’ll read that Moses likewise becomes God to Pharaoh.  He’s confronting Pharaoh like a god.  Not like a god.  I shouldn’t say that.  As God.

Remember when we talked in the first week how the two maincharacters of this book are not Moses and Pharaoh.  It’s Yahweh and Pharaoh.  Because Pharaoh is representative of the godsof Egypt. He’s the one who mediates the gods to the people.  Moses is mediating Yahweh to Aaron and to thepeople and to Pharaoh. 

The issue really here is the struggles between Yahweh andthe gods of Egypt and their two representatives, which are Pharaoh andMoses.  Although Moses—hey pal, badcareer-move here—you’re saying, “I don’t want this honor.  Can somebody else do the talking?”  God’s exasperated.  You want to do something nice for your kidand they just don’t realize it and they throw it back in your face.  “Fine!” That’s how I’m reading this.  Mosesis not doing something that should be something that he’d be very honored todo.

God says, “Fine.  I’llgive it to your brother, Aaron.  But I’mnot giving up on you.  You’re going to beGod to him.  Moses, I have something bigplanned for you.” 

This long back-and-forth between God and Moses, these fivecomplaints, it’s finally over.  Nowfinally, Moses gets with the program. This is the last section.  SectionThree of these two chapters. 

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It begins in verse 18 by approaching his father-in-law,Jethro, and it seems like he’s basically lying to him, because he wants togo.  He basically says, “Listen.  I want to see how my kindred are doing, howmy brothers are doing.  I’d like to goback and check how everyone is.”  Whydoesn’t he just say, “Jethro, you might want to be sitting down here, but I’vemet Yahweh and he told me to do something. I’ve got to go do it.”

Instead, he says—he makes up a little story, another lie, inthe book of Exodus, and we’re only in Chapter 4.  Is he afraid of what Jethro will say?  Does Moses have self-doubt?  Is this one of those awkward in-lawmoments?  “You married my daughter andyou give me one or two grandchildren at this point and you’re leaving to dowhat?  To deliver the Israelites from Egyptianslavery.  Dude, you’re crazy?”

He basically just tells him a story.  Here’s the thing too.  The last time Moses went out to see hisbrothers was back in Chapter 2, verse 11 and couple of verses after that.  This is where Moses goes out to see—to beamong his brothers—to see them.  That’swhen he sees an Egyptian beating on one of his brothers.  What does he do to the Egyptian?  He kills him. That’s what started this whole thing spiraling downward. 

But now, it’s this beautiful reversal.  “I’m gonna go back now.  I’m going to see what my brothers are doing,but this time, it’s not that mini-deliverance where I kill that one Egyptian,which is probably me going off half-cocked and being temperamental.  But now, I’m being sent by God Himself andI’m going to confront the Egyptians en masse, now a second time.  Now things are going to go down.”

Verse 19.  This is oneof those weird parts of Exodus that makes people think, “We’ve got differenttraditions that are just being edited together by somebody, because he just gotdone telling Jethro, ‘I want to go back and see how my brothers aredoing.’”  Jethro said to Moses, “Go inpeace.” 

Then verse 19.  Thenthe Lord, Yahweh, said to Moses in Midian, “Go back to Egypt, for all thoseseeking your life are dead.”  Moses tookhis wife and sons, put them on a donkey and went back to the land ofEgypt.  Moses carried the staff of God inhis hand.

We already know that Moses is going back to Egypt becausethat’s what the whole, long section was about. But now, it seems to be as if—it’s a rather abrupt and choppy thing tothrow in there.  This is what somescholars say.  In verse 19 and some ofthe stuff in this chapter comes from a different tradition that had a differentway of telling the story, but this is a good way of bringing them all together,or at least bringing them both together. There may only be two at this point. Bringing these traditions together and honoring them and not forgettingthem.

You basically have Moses told twice to go back toEgypt.  More interesting to me is thefact that the reason he’s allowed to go back is because “those who are seeking yourlife are dead.”  “What are yousaying?  It’s okay to go back now? Whatabout all these wonders and powers, these plagues?  I couldn’t go back until somebody died?”  It seems like a very un-godlike move, adifferent kind of way that God is presented than what we saw in the versesbefore.

“Here’s what you’re going to do.  You’re going to go.  You’re going to show all these powers andsigns.  You’re gonna convince Pharaohwith my mighty hand and my outstretched arm and things are going to godown.  The Egyptians are going to besorry about all this.”

But now it’s, “Hey. Go back.  You know what?  Those guys who are trying to kill you?  They’re dead.”

It’s one of these things that requires an explanation andpeople have given their explanations. They’ve tried.  Why not?

Maybe even more interesting than that is how this veryverse, “all those who are seeking your life are dead”—that very verse is quotedvirtually verbatim in the book of Matthew Chapter 2.  This is when the Holy Family is down in Egyptand Joseph is told by God in a dream, “It’s okay to go back home because allthose who are seeking your life are dead.” Of course, this is referring to Herod and the edict, “kill the malechildren” (actually just to kill the babies, the infants three years oryounger, whatever it was). 

What Matthew seems to be doing here—it’s one of Matthew’sthings to present Jesus in a way that reverberates these Old Testament stories,especially David and especially Moses. Matthew says, “Jesus coming out of Egypt to go back home with his family,that’s like Moses going back to his home which happens to be Egypt, because thethreat is over.”  Matthew is playing onthis verse, this very odd verse in Exodus to say something about Jesus’Jewishness and his Moses-like activities. 

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I do think that’s very interesting.  I like when the Bible does that.  It’s very literarily connected. 

Another way of looking at this is that it’s not so much—I’mjust throwing interpretation possibilities out there—it’s not so much, “It’sokay now.  It’s safe to go back.”   It’s more like, “Now’s the time to go back,because our oppressors are dying.  Ourexodus has begun.  Now go back and finishit.” 

This is a previewing in a sense what’s going to happen.  “Your oppressors are going to meet with anuntimely end.  They’re dying.  Now you’re going to go back and finish thejob.”

I think that’s an interesting possibility forinterpretation.  Again, I’m not going tobet the farm on that if I had a farm, but it’s at least—these stories—they talklike this and they don’t explain themselves. This book doesn’t come with footnotes. We just have to try to figure things out.

We’re coming to the end here, folks.  Two or three more points.

In verse 21—we’re in this last section here of thesechapters—in verse 21, God reminds Moses, “Perform the wonders before Pharaoh,”which will be the plagues.  But then Godsays something that frankly seems to contradict something He just saidbefore—He says, “Perform the wonders before Pharaoh, but I will harden hisheart so that he will not let the people go.”

In Chapter 3, verse 19, “the plagues will be necessary inorder to convince Pharaoh.”  But now,it’s like, “perform the wonders, but here’s what I’m going to do.  I’m going to harden his heart so that hewon’t let the people go.”

“Which is it?  Are theplagues going to work to convince him to let them go?  Then you’re just going to step in and hardenhis heart so he doesn’t let them go? That doesn’t seem to be fair.”

This is played out in the plague story.  The plagues themselves both happen after Pharaohgives in.  This is especially the lastthree plagues.  After Pharaoh gives in,God hardens his heart to send more plagues. I compare this to a cat playing with a mouse to show whose boss, justtoying with it.  You carry itaround.  You bat it around with yourpaws.  Then you let it revive itself andyou then you bat it again.  God isplaying with Pharaoh here.  He’shardening his heart.  “I’m not doneyet.  I’ve convinced you by my mightyhand and outstretched arm that you need to let the people go.  I know you’re ready.  But I’m not.”

It sounds cruel and stuff, but it’s the story.  I’m not sure if I would make finaldeterminations about the nature of God from this verse.  There you have it.  These two things contradict each other in astrict sense, but I think in the context of the book of Exodus as a whole, it’ssimply saying, “The plagues are going to do the job, but only when I say so.  I want ten plagues, not six or five.  To keep things going, even after you’re readyto go, I have to harden your heart, Pharaoh, so that you’re not going to letthe people go, even after you said you will.”

Because guess what?  Rememberwhat we said before.  This all has to getto the tenth plague.  What’s the tenthplague?  That’s the death of thefirstborn of Egypt by this destroyer, so-called angel of death.  That’s not a right translation of theHebrew.  That’s the tenth plague.

This is what he gets into in verse 22.  Israel is called God’s first-born son.  Remember, God’s first-born son, Israel, isoppressed by the Egyptians and in fact, the sons, plural—the Israelite’ssons—thrown into the Nile by an edict by Pharaoh back in Chapter 1. 

There’s no true payback for how God treated his son, Israel,generally, and the boys specifically. There’s no true payback until the tenth plague.  This is really the principle of an “eye-for-an-eye,and tooth-for-a-tooth.”  You do this andthis is what will happen to you.  It’sretribution.  It’s justice byretribution.

Also, this first-born son—Israel being God’s first-bornson—this is son of God language which in the Old Testament is more often thannot the language of royalty.  Kings inthe ancient world—not just in Israel—were thought of as the offspring of thegods.  The son of god.  Certainly, the Old Testament too.  If you look at Psalm 2.  The king is God’s son, for example. 

That’s when he becomes king, when he’s coronated, so-to-speak,at that point, he’s “begotten by God.” He’s “born of God.”  It’s often aroyal term, but here it seems to be more like familial and “this is myfirst-born son.  I’m the dad of Israeland this is my first-born son.”  Theyhave pride of place.  I care forthem.  They’re special to me.

That might put a spin even on the son of God language in theNew Testament.  Because there, Jesus isGod’s Son.  In one sense, that meansthat’s royal language.  David is a son ofGod for being king.  Jesus, as Messiah,is son of God.  But he also may be son ofGod in fulfilling not just royal destiny, but Israel’s destiny.  Jesus fulfills Israel’s role as a mediator ofthe covenant of God to the nations. We’ll see that later in the book of Exodus.  Israel’s role as a kingdom of priests, itsays.

Jesus as son of God—that’s language that you already seehere in the book of Exodus, Chapter 4, where Israel is God’s Son and Jesusembodies Israel’s role, so-to-speak.

One more point.  Thisis a doozy.  This is how this chapter basicallyends.  It’s just plain weird.  It’s verses 24-26. 

Here’s what’s happening. God just told Moses, even though Moses was reluctant--he finally cavedand God convinced him to go to Egypt to deliver the Israelites from slavery. 

All-of-a-sudden, without warning, in verse 24, “on the wayat a place where they might spend the night, the Lord met him and tried to killhim.”  Apparently, the reason for that isthat their son wasn’t circumcised. Zipporah, his wife—this is one of the daughters of Midian that hemarries—she steps in with a flint knife and circumcises her son and then withthe foreskin, she touches Moses’ feet, which is almost certainly a euphemismfor his genitals. 

She touches Moses’ feet with the foreskin.  She says, “Truly,” to Moses, “you are abridegroom of blood to me.” 

What?  Exactly.

Don’t preach on this in church because I think it’s just toodifficult.  This is a very ambiguouspassage.  It’s grammatically ambiguous inHebrew.  There are a lot ofpronouns.  Like “He, He, Him” that arethrown around.  You’re not always sure ifthe “he” is Moses or if the “he” is the son. It’s a tough one to understand, but regardless of all that, this is apretty serious about-face.

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You don’t expect to turn on anybody for any reason at thispoint.  After all they went through justwith these speeches and the burning bush, why try to kill him?

The bottom line is that this is a big puzzle.  The best answer I have is one that I’veheard.  I don’t make this up.  This episode is somehow connected to thePassover episode that comes later in the book. Think of it this way.  Theshedding of blood in the Passover and also here in the circumcision—itdesignated the insiders.  Who are theinsiders?  Who are the people ofGod?  Who’s Israel? 

It protects the first-born. Moses has two sons at this point, but there’s only one here.  Some have said, “How can he have one son whenhe had two?  Did one of them die?”   No. 

Probably, the only important son is the first-born son whoisn’t circumcised.  That’s what I thinkit is.  I could be wrong.  That’s how I’ve put these piecestogether.  Here is a son who is notcircumcised.  Here, in order to protecthim, and anybody from getting killed, is to circumcise him.

Here his son is circumcised just like later on in thePassover episode, what’s going to happen, but the first-born of Israel is notgoing to die by this plague of death, because of the blood of the lamb.  The lamb is slaughtered and the blood ispainted on the doors. 

It’s still weird. Granted.  It’s a really odd way ofending this chapter.  A lot of peoplehave said, “It’s just seems to be stuck here. It’s almost like a separate folk-loric element that meant something topeople back then.”  What does it meanthat you were a “bridegroom of blood to me”?

It’s really hard to know. People have taken some good stabs and I don’t want to spend time doingthat here.  It’s one of theseexplanations—to do it right would take 20 minutes.  I don’t want to do that. 

I think at the end of the day, we still wouldn’t know.  It’s sort of weird.

One thing that’s not as weird is here we have another womanhero in the book of Exodus.  It wasMoses’ sister.  Then Pharaoh’s daughterbringing Moses to safety as a child.  Itwas the women who would help the Israelite women give birth to women.  Now, here we have another woman who comes tothe rescue, who sees the problem and she takes the matter into her own hands,literally, and circumcises his son.

That’s a very valid observation.  Another valid observation—this may not be thewhole point of the story, but there’s a parallel between another famous divineconfrontation, this one involving Jacob wrestling with God back inGenesis. 

Important stuff is going down.  Jacob is renamed Israel and it’s thebeginning of something new and fresh. Here we have another divine confrontation with the human deliverer, thistime Moses.

There are probably really good reasons why this ishere.  It’s just hard to see them.  At the end of the day, couldn’t God have simplyhave told Moses all this earlier?  Likewhy wait?  “By the way, forgot to tellyou.  Somebody’s not circumcised.  You’re going to die.”  You could have said that earlier and it wouldhave avoided these problems.

Which means it’s so weird and so out of place.  There’s probably a reason for it we don’t see.

He connects with Aaron just as God had promised.  He connects with Aaron in thewilderness.  Did Aaron just walk out ofEgypt?

It’s one of these moments in this story that just isn’texplained.  Aaron’s a slave, right?  He’s an Israelite.  He can’t just walk out.

They meet in the wilderness and they both re-enter Egyptlike nobody’s watching.  I’m not going totry to explain it.  It’s just there.  When you read the text carefully, thesethings jump out at you.

Of course, he meets with the elders.  He performs the signs.  They believe and they worship.  Now, it’s all about to go down.  Now Moses is back.  He’s been accepted by the people as thedeliver.  They’re not going to grumbleagainst him too much.  One time in thisbook.  But after that, not for quite awhile.  At least a few chapters. 

Poor Moses.  He’sgrumbled against a lot.  At this point,everybody’s on board.

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Okay, folks, that brings us to the end of Chapter 4 and theend of this podcast on Part 2 of Pete Ruins Exodus.  Hope you’ve enjoyed it.  I’ll be back in a few weeks with the nextinstallment where we’re going to cover a bit more ground.  I plan to get through all the plagues.

Again, from 30,000 feet. But there’s a lot happening there. A lot of theological significance.

Again, as always, thanks for downloading and listening.  It means a lot to me.  It means a lot to Jared and the work we’re tryingto do.  Thanks for being a part ofthis.  See you next time. 

Bye-bye.

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